The Fire Protection Podcast Episode 43, NFPA Expo & The State of Fire Protection – Part 2

Part 2 with Special Guest John Mackey of the Mackey Group

As promised, here is my second part of the NFPA Conference and Expo recap.

I’ll make this short and sweet.

Part 2 continues my discussion with John Mackey, of the Mackey Group LLC, about the NFPA conference and the state of the fire protection industry. 

Here are some of the highlights.

• Fire Alarm industry and the push for proprietary service
• AHJ Compliance around the US and where it’s heading
• Fire Protection industry growth with a looming recession
• What’s next for John?

Please feel free to reach out with other Podcast topics or issues you are experiencing in the fire protection industry.  I thank you all for listening, and I will be rolling out some new episodes this summer.

Regards,

Drew Slocum
Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer – Inspect Point

 

 

Full Transcript

Drew Slocum:

This is episode 43 of the Fire Protection Podcast, powered by Inspect Point. This is actually the second part of the conversation I had with John Mackey regarding NFPA and the state of the industry to see where we’re at within fire protection. Um, in the first part of the episode, we talked about some of the things that we were happening at NFPA, some of the lithium-ion batteries, and the fire technology that’s coming out. And, um, yeah, the second part’s pretty good getting into some of where the industry’s at and where we’re headed. So, uh, hope you enjoy and please like and subscribe. Thanks.

John Mackey:

Um, so interesting stuff. Um, what about, uh, I did not have a chance to get by Potter. Um, did you have a chance to see what they had going?

Drew Slocum :

On? Um, I, I’m, I’m pretty in tune with Potter. You know, I talk to those guys quite a bit. Um, I like what they’re doing. It’s a lot of, um, you know, their fire alarm side is, is kind of some of, uh, the big players at Honeywell back in the day. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, and, and coming over. I, I didn’t get a chance to go to their booth. I, or I, I saw Sean and, uh, Sean Hek, uh, Heskett pretty, pretty quick. And I saw, uh, Craig Summers on the, on the fire alarm side. Um, and I went to their after-hours get-together, which was fun, Sure.

John Mackey :

<laugh>

Drew Slocum :

Not the after hours after show. I, you know,

John Mackey:

Yes,

Drew Slocum:

Yes. I’m not an after-hours guy anymore, but, um, um, no, I, I like what they’re doing with, um, you know, the fire alarm has traditionally in the last, and it still is going this way, they’re trying to make the industry proprietary, which that’s not what other, that’s not what the rest, that’s not what building owners want. That’s not what AHJs want. That’s not what maybe some of the contractors want. But I, I feel like the more open you make, I don’t know. I don’t know why you’re gonna lock it down. I, I know why they’re locking it down and making it proprietary, but Potter seems to be going a little bit in the other direction where it’s, it’s a little bit more open, and they’re a little bit more configurable, and working with others, versus if you’re not buying this much from me, you’re not gonna be a distributor. That means you don’t get to work on some of this stuff. Uh, that’s, that’s my opinion. I don’t know what they showed at the, at the, at the, at the show, but, um, I know they’re making a huge push in fire alarm. And the one, the, uh, service providers I talk to, I’m seeing more and more and more Potter distributors, not even second tier as a distributorship, but first tier mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which is great to hear,

John Mackey:

You know, and I agree with you. I think that, you know, the strength of our market is having various OEMs that provide technology that we can all benefit from. And what I mean by that is, you know, you look at these large manufacturers that have proprietary equipment that only they can work on mm-hmm. <affirmative>, well, that limits the market, essentially. Yeah. All right. Because they only have so many technicians, and they have so many offices that can go service those accounts. And at the end of the day, the customer or the building owner is impacted by that.

Drew Slocum:

Yep.

John Mackey:

Right. So, I do see a lot, you know, more value, an especially long term too, you know, continue to create a market where you have a pathway for the potters and, and similar manufacturers that make equipment that is, uh, that can’t be integrated with a number of different solutions. It’s not proprietary, but it serves a great purpose, um, to fill the need with a good, let’s use the context of the panel. So a really good panel that can plug into somebody else’s equipment and still do the same, you know, detection and releasing controls that, you know, brand A can do. Yeah. Right. It’s still robust. Right. And I think that when you look at the profile of the contractors, you and I have had this conversation before, so let’s draw the market. You know, you might say it’s 12,000 contractors. I say it’s 10,000 contractors. Uh, but when you look at the sheer numbers, bigger isn’t necessarily better in our space. Yeah. There’s a lot of richness in those small to mid-size contractors than to need access to those smaller manufacturers. And those smaller manufacturers are the ones that open those doors for all of us to have, uh, you know, a dog in the fight with you, if you will, and some of those bigger projects because of the robustness of their technology.

Drew Slocum:

Yeah. I, uh, it, it, it’s, the lockdown of the, and again, I get it from their perspective. I just don’t get it as an industry. Um, uh, or just flying the wall. There was another technology, I don’t know if you saw it. Do, did you see, uh, fire m

John Mackey:

I did not see Fire M.

Drew Slocum:

So it’s a small, they’re, they’re, I might, I might be getting their name wrong. I’m trying to look ’em up right now. But, um, a guy used to work for Davis Elmer, um, or it’s Lvx, uh, I, I’m ruining this, so LVX global, maybe it is. Um, anyway, they have a, they have a gateway in, you know, gateway essentially connected to the internet that hooks up to any, I don’t know about any, but it’s a wide variety of fire alarm panels mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So you’re not stuck with, um, having to have that proprietary nature of it. Now it’s getting around what shouldn’t be there in the first place, I don’t think. But, um, at least there’s product coming to the market, and I believe, I dunno, 72 is gonna start making it a little bit more open, uh, in some of the code as it moves, moves down the line. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, at least what I’ve heard, uh, from different people. But, um, yeah, it was interesting being able to, to, to gain access. Maybe not to gain access, but to gain seeing what troubles and supervises are going off from a fire alarm panel, um, without being a direct distributor of that panel.

John Mackey:

Right. Yeah. You know, I think that you know, those types of plugins make a lot of sense because, you know, again, those bigger contractors can’t be in all buildings at all times. Right? Yeah. And so you have to create a pathway for, um, that next tier to be able to service those accounts and help drive compliance and help drive repairs and deficiencies, you know, make sure those systems are operable. Um, I also think that NFPA 9 15 will also set the tone for some of these new technologies, like, uh, LVX, I’m on that website, and Fire M. because as the code is in development now, those devices for to plug in do not have to be UL listed, AJ has to make the approval, right? Right. So that this platform starts to open the, you know, the market or the gateway fuel doorway for that.

Drew Slocum:

If it’s a, so I think the the clarification there for, for other listeners out there, so it doesn’t need to be you listed if it’s, if it’s an, uh, if, if there’s any testing component mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like on the sprinkler, if you’re operating a valve. Yep. Uh, if, if you’re doing anything else, you need to, you need to have a listing. But if you’re just getting data from an inspection or just data from a piping system or a network or whatever, then you don’t need a listing. Got it. And, and that’s in 25 and 72. But N NF P’S kind of like, it’s, it’s being pointed to if there’s remote inspection, cuz it’s already in 72 and 25 and soon to be at probably 2001. And, uh, I don’t know if 17 A or 17 is going that way, but I probably will at least refer to nine 15. So if you are doing a remote inspection, but you’re right with the AHJs  the AHJ is gonna have to allow it, and yeah, I think there’s gonna be half to some education there to the HJ about it, but it’s, it’s similar to all the other NF NF P standards.

John Mackey:

Yeah. So,

Drew Slocum:

Um, sorry to have that come out in 2023, I believe.

John Mackey:

Yep. Yeah. That, and you know, I’m glad to see LV X doing what they’re doing because again, we need somebody to try to open up those, you know, proprietary systems,

Drew Slocum:

<laugh>. Yeah, exactly. Come on,

John Mackey:

<laugh>.

Drew Slocum:

Um, let’s see. Got some notes here; anything else? Uh, codes and standards. There wasn’t, I mean, there was some stuff on NFPA 25 that was voted on. Um, nothing too crazy, uh, concealed sprinkler-headed inspection. That was, that was a bit of my biggest takeaway from that, at least. Did you see anything else code wise on

John Mackey:

Nothing, I, I know nine 15 wasn’t up for any vote. Um, it’s still wrapping up discussions, right, on nine 15. Yeah. Yeah. So that part’s fine. Um, 8 55 was up for a vote, but I didn’t read any details specific to what was voted on specific to 8 55, but I thought there was some voting on 8 55, which for those who dunno what it’s, that’s the that’s energy storage systems.

Drew Slocum:

Yep.

John Mackey:

Um, and so, um, that not necessarily getting caught up in the details of the code, but 8 55 and what’s going on with ESS, um, almost every, every person I talked to that’s been on the clean edge side, <laugh> Yeah. And, you know, watches what’s going on with an eye on that and detection I should say is, you know, watching what happens with 8 55, so

Drew Slocum:

Oh yeah. Yeah. That’s, uh, I mean, I know there’s been a, a ton of fires there, or not a ton, but there have been quite a few fires there in the last few years. So

John Mackey:

Yeah, it’s, uh, unfortunate municipalities don’t know how to deal with it. Um, cuz they’re, they don’t have the resources. Um, I know that, uh, there was a fire recently in Chandler, Arizona, um, I learned this from the NAED conference. Paul Hayes, who’s also on 8-55, gave a presentation at NAED specific to 8 55 and talked about the Chandler Arizona fire where they, they could not put the fire out, but they had to subdue it because, you know, it’s a warehouse and above the warehouse or power lines, high voltage lines, they couldn’t let it burn. So over three days, they dropped, you know, two or 3 million gallons of water into the building

Drew Slocum :

In Arizona to

John Mackey :

Sub in Arizona and destroyed the building <laugh>. So, gosh. Uh, and so it’s, it’s, it’s tough because I think the fire service is trying to figure out how do we fight these things. Um, and there isn’t technology out there with how to, how to manage it, how

Drew Slocum:

To suppress it. Yeah.

John Mackey:

How to suppress it, you know, so

Drew Slocum:

Yeah. It’s gotta be detection. It

John Mackey:

Has to be detection. Right. I saw a video online earlier this week where, you know, there’s a car fire, a Tesla car fire, and a municipality simply just took a bulldozer and dumped sand on it. <laugh> Oh my. Let it burn on the side, then put the fire out, but, uh, Oh,

Drew Slocum:

Did, there you go. Yeah.

John Mackey:

Right.

Drew Slocum:

Blasty, uh, you know, those extinguishers, you just dump the, you know,

John Mackey:

<laugh>

Drew Slocum:

Exactly. Magnesium, whatever.

John Mackey:

Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so it’s interesting, um, I wanna get you to at least talk about it. I know this is only limited to one state. Um, I think, you know, I talked briefly about it a few weeks ago, but recently the state of Louisiana and the state fire marshal, um, got it. New legislation passed in the state has created an environment to move off inspection tags on fire equipment and over to QR codes.

Drew Slocum:

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

John Mackey:

Are you familiar with that

Drew Slocum:

For just extinguishers or everything?

John Mackey:

Everything. Alarm, sprinkler, and extinguishers.

Drew Slocum:

Yeah, I know about it. I’ve been trying to follow it. Uh, obviously we’re, we’re heavy with the compliance software platforms. Um, and we have some really fun stuff coming down the line, uh, with that, uh, hopefully being released soon. But, um, because that’s a, you know, that’s a, you know, it’s being sold to the AHJ,  Right? Which it provides them a big value because they’re not having to send out inspectors to all these systems. They’re, they’re getting the data from the building owner slash usually the service provider. Right. Um, but I don’t know too many details about Louisiana. And I know Louisiana’s very, um, well versed with fire protection, and they have got a good state fire marshal’s office. Um, so they’re probably looking forward now the QR code. Um, instead of a fire extinguisher tag, it’s a QR code sticker in there. Yes. Interesting.

John Mackey:

Yes. Yep. And so in Louisiana, you’ve got a three-color code system: green for compliant, yellow for, uh, suggested deficiency, and then red for, uh, truly deficient. Right. And, and so they’re moving away from those types of tags to a QR code. So now the state, not sure how far it’s gonna go, but they have the ability to then control, you know, the inspection form itself. And then as that form is then uploaded to the state’s website, uh, which is managed by one of these third party, uh, you know, reporting mm-hmm. <affirmative> platforms. Yep. Um, it creates an environment. Now, the state fire marshal can truly see deficiencies in where things are at, are these systems being inspected, what’s the schedule, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And all through a QR code. So the fire protection inspector or, excuse, the fire protection contractor is being in that QR code, you know, and here’s the form I need to fill out. The state fire marshal that shows up to look at it, boom, he’s pulling it up. Now he sees it from his perspective. Right. Um, so it’s, it’s interesting. And, um, again, it just passed in the state legislature, I think in, uh, at some point in May. And, uh, it is, you know, being developed for implementation here. Interesting. Probably it sounds, I think it’s gonna be early next year.

Drew Slocum:

Wow. Wow. Yeah, I’d be interested. Yeah. That’s kind of going one beyond what, uh, compliance engine and, and they are doing because that’s being, it’s pretty, you know, you upload, you know, manually upload the, the form and the deficiencies, which provides great value. Yeah. It’s also a big hindrance in a lot of other circumstances, but if it’d be interesting, they’re going to the asset level now, and that’s great. I’m, I’d be intrigued to see how it rolls out and, uh, <laugh> and I think, you know, fire alarm and sprinkler is one thing, but like extinguisher, I don’t know. Those guys don’t move too quickly. So, um, <laugh> on technology, you know,

John Mackey:

<laugh>, um, I, I, at the end of the day, the state of Louisiana, as you said earlier, has a very strong state fire marshal’s office.

Drew Slocum:

Yes.

John Mackey:

And if there’s a state that I can see trying to make this work, if there’s a state that has that type of support.

Drew Slocum:

Yeah. I, I, I like what they’re doing. I mean, if they can improve on that compliance piece, um, from an HHAs perspective, go for it. Right. Yep. Um, it’s, it’s all about the rollout though, and I feel like if they can roll it out, don’t, don’t just toss somebody out and tell ’em to do it. You gotta have, you know, all the stakeholders involved in the process. Absolutely. Which they’re probably doing, and I’ve, you know, I’ve heard this a few times of, of them doing it. So,

John Mackey:

Uh, I know they, they, you know, there were, uh, advisory board meetings, and there were committee meetings and a and a, a number of the contractors had an opportunity to sit at the table and, and weigh in on their perspective of, you know, pros and cons about the solution. Yep. Um, obviously, at the end of the day, not everyone was, was happy about it, but mm-hmm. <affirmative> it passed <laugh>. Wow. And so it’s, it’s coming. Um, so to your point, let’s see what it looks like in action. Yeah. Maybe over the next, uh, you know, next couple years.

Drew Slocum:

No, it’s, uh, it, it’s good. And I like the state-level push instead of a town-by-town, city by city. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, just do it. It, it, it just makes it so much easier as an industry if we can. There’s never gonna be a nat. Uh, there are national standards, but then it gets so jurisdictional beyond the states. It’s, um, and, and, and on the, on the water and backflow side, it’s crazy how many different backflow annual, just an annual inspection backflow form. There are probably close to a thousand in the US that you have to do it. It’s, it’s ridiculous. And it’s not like that. You’re not making that much money off of backflow, and you have thousands of different backflow forms to manage, and they’re changing every three years. It’s crazy. <laugh>,

John Mackey:

It’s an opportunity for the Backflow Association to figure out what that, you know, what that looks like.

Drew Slocum:

<laugh>, good luck. Good luck. Good luck. Good luck. Sync to sync. As a kind of a quasi competitor of ours on the backflow side, I’m like, man, I don’t know how, I don’t know how they do it, but, um, <laugh> and WA Watts bought them. Watts bought them a few years ago. Um, speaking of buying it, any, uh, you’re, you’re big on the consolidation side. What have you, what did you ga gather anything from NFPA on M&A, and what’s happening?

John Mackey:

Well, you know, um, just like any other conference we go to in the industry, there’s always chatter about consolidation across the market. Um, you know, NFPA is not a heavy contractor event. There’s, I mean, they’re there, but, you know, I think it’s, it’s the quality of the contractors is not just sheer numbers of contractors that come to NFPA. Um, you saw some of the big, you know, I’ll call ’em notable contractor platforms. They were there, um, you know, talk to some of those, uh, those folks, and it was really good to see them in attendance, um, walking the floor, talking to vendors, talking to engineering firms, and just really keeping their pulse on what’s going on in the industry. Um, I also recognize some of the PE firms, you know, not the bankers, but the folks that are running plays in fire, um, really trying to take a broader look at the industry.

So some of those firms were there as well. Um, but I did pick up, you know, some of the manufacturers now, you know, they’ve been quiet with regard to the buy-sell cycle of consolidation. I mean, contractors, we got deals to go down every month, <laugh>. Yeah. Um, but in the manufacturing space, I’m starting to pick up, um, you know, some indicators that, you know, there are some moving parts and pieces, uh, in that side, and we haven’t seen that in a long time. No. With regard to, you know, manufacturers coming together or somebody else coming into space to acquire manufacturers. Um, so, um, that’s gonna be interesting to see, um, and how that shakes out. Um, most of those are publicly traded companies, so Right. Very tight lip on how those things develop, but Yep. Um, we’ll, we, you know, we’ll be on the receiving end when it, when it truly comes out.

Sure. Um, at the end of the day, all of it highlights the fact that, you know, and I said earlier, the industry is still strong. I mean, we’re still growing consistently between six and 8% year over year. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, you look at, you know, the new markets that are developing the new technology that’s come into those new markets, even with the consolidation of these bigger platforms. And I think you and I have talked about this before, you know, company A goes into a major metro market, let’s pick Atlanta, or you know, Chicago, and somebody within a year, boom, two or three new contractors pop up. Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah. And, you know, for one acquisition, boom, you have three new competitors. Yeah. And so that, to me, shows you how healthy the market is, and I think that’s been our history over the last 35 years.

And that will continue. Yep. And, um, that’s the growth or the churn, if you will, not the growth, the churn that is healthy for us, because, um, like I said earlier on, in our space, bigger doesn’t necessarily mean you’re the best. Yep. Right. At the end of the day, our industry truly operates at the regional level and the local level. Yep. Right. And it’s those companies that I continue to see, really take care of the customers, really stay close to, um, how compliance is gonna be done, good tight processes, and, you know, sustainable business models, ultimately they get acquired <laugh>. Right. And here comes the next one behind it, right, right. Um, that’s, that’s turnover that we need.

Drew Slocum :

So, there’s been a lot of, last year was the heavy acquisition, right? So Yeah, absolutely. Um, this year, no, this has been okay. But I have seen a bunch of new startup companies, um, come out, and I, you’re right. With labor being even the way it is, I think you’re gonna continue to see that. So as, as acquisition kind of ticks down because of interest rates and, uh, I don’t know if it’s the interest rates or I, I don’t think it’ll be as strong as last year. I think it, uh, that’s almost like a peak, right? Uh,

John Mackey :

2021 was the strongest year ever for deals in fire protection.

Drew Slocum:

Wow.

John Mackey:

Right. As it relates to how just pure cash moves through the system.

Drew Slocum:

Oh, dollars. Wow.

John Mackey:

Okay. Dollars, right? So yes, last year was the peak, uh, this year will not be at last year’s 20, 21 levels, but I do, I might, you know, based on reading between the tea leaves and, and how I look at the market, I do think we’re gonna be back to where we were probably 20 18, 20 19, which is still very, very strong <laugh> very strong. All right. And so, um, but yes, you’re, you’re right, it’s gonna continue to be, um, these smaller firms that, you know, 10 years ago, you know, when somebody came in their market in Charlotte and bought, you know, bought the company they work for, three companies started. Well, guess what? Those three companies today are 10 to 15 million in revenue and, you know, 15, 20% EBITDA and Right. You know, they’re looking for a partner. Yeah. And so that’s a churn. You know, you said that, you know, on the software side, you get more phone calls in a market after somebody’s made an acquisition because someone needs software. Right. So that’s number one. I was talking to an insurance carrier in the fire protection space in the state of Florida last week, and he said the same thing. He goes, I’ve lost big customers, but I’ve picked up more business of small customers.

Drew Slocum:

Wow.

John Mackey:

So it was, my business is growing. I just have to work a little bit harder to get it.

Drew Slocum:

Yeah.

John Mackey:

So, you know, again, at the end of the day, that shows you how strong our industry is. And you know, as, even to your point, yes, money’s gonna get a little tighter with interest rates. Um, you know, whether or not we actually end up in a recession that will influence behavior, uh, both on the buy and sell sides. Um, but at the end of the day, it’s still gonna be, still gonna be strong. Well,

Drew Slocum:

The great part about the fire protection industry Yeah. And, and that six to 8% is, is a lot of it’s on the new building. Right. A lot of that’s on the new installation. Yep. But it’s a very recession resistant, it’s proved, you know, multiple times. It’s very recession resistant. It’s also a pandemic resistant, uh, industry. And it’s, it’s gonna, it’s that slow growth. Um, or it’s not, not even slow. It’s, it’s, it’s decent. It’s, uh, decent growth every year. It’s just, you know, you gotta ride the waves at the building, um, building industry. Right,

John Mackey:

Right. But I mean, to your point, right? So, you know, Boston, I think that counted 12 cranes in there in the air. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, tons of construction in Boston, but if you go to Chicago, not so much. No. Right. Um, I live in the south. You go to Atlanta, there’s gotta be 15 or 20 Trane there in Atlanta. Yeah. Um, and so to your point, yeah, you might see some pockets where the development is slow or, you know, not visible still happening. Maybe it’s a retrofit and not a rebuild or a new build. Right. Um, but that new construction’s going on somewhere in the United States. Yeah. You know, it might be in Phoenix, it might be in Denver, it might be in Austin, Texas. It might be in Atlanta. It might be in Charlotte, it might be in Miami, but it’s happening somewhere. Yeah. And so just because you don’t see those cranes in, you know, Chicago or Milwaukee, <laugh>. Yeah. Drive to the beach. <laugh>.

Drew Slocum:

Yeah. Drive, drive south.

John Mackey:

Drive South, uh, it’s happening. I live in the South, and I mean, everywhere I go, uh, more and more construction. A lot of its residential condos and Yep. And, uh, you know, tourism stuff, but, you know, I’ll take it.

Drew Slocum:

Nice. Nice. Yeah. Um, anything else from, uh, from NFPA, uh, any, any, any other big, um, it was just great to be there, and the weather was awesome as well, and just, uh, yeah. We had that first day, we had a lot of traffic internationally, which was great to see, with everything going on with travel restrictions and all that. I saw a lot of Latin America, a lot of Middle East, and a lot of, um, Canada. I think Canada’s just ready to go out and party, you know, <laugh>, they have been locked up for a while. <laugh>, uh, you know, I wanna get up there to go to one of their parties cuz uh, you know, we’re always fun.

John Mackey:

Yes. Um, no, I agree. I think that, you know, I did run in a lot of people from Europe, um, you know, and the Netherlands, uh, the UK, Germany. Um, that was really good to see. Um, again, and they’re all, you know, looking for the same thing. We have the same hazards; we’ve got the same issues. Um, and, and we need to make this trip every year to really understand, you know, how do we solve those problems. Um, I had, you know, breakfast one morning on Wednesday morning with, uh, uh, some guys from Australia just talking about what’s going on in the Australian market, and, you know, they look forward to NFPA every year because that’s how they understand what’s going on in the market. Even though NFPA a is very centric to the United States, and I’ll say North America with regard to codes and standards and influence, you know, all those manufacturers are shipping material and equipment around the world.

Drew Slocum:

Yes.

John Mackey:

Right. And Australia has the same address we, you know, that we do here in the states. Yep. Uh, so, you know, it was really interesting to hear their perspective about, um, you know, what they’re trying to tackle.

Drew Slocum:

No, it’s interesting. I saw, I met, I met, uh, one of our, our, our competitors actually from Australia came over and, and, uh, chatted with me and, uh, yeah, it was just, it was refreshing. They were, they were really nice, but, uh, um, and it was, it was a cool business model. And they’re, they have different challenges over in, in Australia, and they’re, their code system seems a little better, but you’re right. They have to get the material from, you know, those US manufacturers essentially. Right.

John Mackey:

Yeah. Yep. So, um, but overall, as I said, the beginning was a really good show. Um, you know, if you look at the circuit, you know, between, we, we started the, the conference season and, and February, February with the F Ss a Suppression Systems Association in Florida, uh, three NAF Feds. I didn’t do all three. I did two <laugh>, uh, two NAF Feds and then N F P A and all, all of ’em highlighted the fact that everyone was really excited to be together. Uh, the strength of the industry, just a matter if you’re a SpecialEd hazard contractor, manufacturing, um, or fire extinguisher, uh, distributor, um, all doing very, very well. I’m looking forward to the A F S A event mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, in October in, um, in Las Vegas. Um, and I expect the same, um, tone if you will, uh, about the optimism of the space and Yep. Um, just really happy that we’re, uh, we’re back in person.

Drew Slocum :

Yeah. It’s, it’s great. And then, and some good shows are coming up, do you go to the NFSA? Uh, I don’t think I’ll be there, but I’ll be at NFSA speaking, um, and then SFPE should be a, should be decent. I won’t be there. And then some of the local you’re going to the Florida Fire Equipment?

John Mackey:

Yeah. The Florida Fire Equipment Dealers Association, uh, meeting here at the end of July, and

Drew Slocum:

So, oh, it’s July. Okay.

John Mackey:

Yep. Yep. It’s in Orlando. Um, the

Drew Slocum:

Orlando in July, come on.

John Mackey:

The locals in Florida have no problem going. And I live in Alabama,

Drew Slocum:

Nobody, you know. Yeah, yeah. <laugh>,

John Mackey:

It’s either 95 in humid here or 95 in humid in Orlando <laugh>. So it’s the same. Um, so, um, looking forward to that conference. I went last year for the first time. I heard so much about it back in my days at Ansel. Um, and it’s just a, a tight-knit group of folks that, you know, obviously very passionate about, um, you know, the fire equipment business and, and, uh, if my numbers are right, the state of Florida alone has 400 fire extinguisher distributors Wow. Registered, registered, um, in the state association. So, um, you know, that’s bigger than most states <laugh> Yes. Uh, across the country. So, um, um, so a good tight-knit group, and, uh, looking forward to the conference and, and, uh, you know, reconnect with some of those folks down there as well.

Drew Slocum:

Yeah. It’s gonna be, uh, I, I think, um, yeah, next, next the fall, usually, it’s, summer’s a little break other than this show, but, uh, yeah, it is good to see the, you know, NFPA have a good time and they’re rolling out stuff themselves, NFPA, I’m interested to see where they’re kind of heading as an organization, nonprofit and, um, yeah. We’ll have to, we’ll have to do this, uh, I guess is it an annual thing here, John? We’ll have to do some, you know, we’ll have to do it more often, you know, once this recession hits us in a few months or the fall, you know, <laugh> stuff might.

John Mackey:

Change. <laugh>, we won’t be able to travel anywhere. <laugh>. Yeah. Uh, no. Yeah. Obviously, Drew, I always look forward to the opportunity to, you know, to do this with you and just share perspectives of, of the industry and what we see and, and share that with your, you know, your followers and, and subscribers and, and, um, you know, I remember being at NAFED in Indianapolis and someone came up to me and said, what are you guys doing your next podcast,

Drew Slocum:

<laugh>? Ah, that’s funny.

John Mackey:

Yeah. Uh, so, uh, so hopefully we, uh, we gave him some information that, uh, was worthwhile and it was a good listen for them and, and, uh, look forward to the next opportunity.

Drew Slocum:

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks again. Uh, do you wanna give a plug, uh, where, where we can find it? If you wanna give Nolan’s plug again, you know, feel free.

John Mackey:

Yeah. So, um, uh, Nolan, uh, my son, uh, Nolan Mackey, uh, the company that he’s standing up or starting right now is called, uh, active Hyphen Resume, and it’s a C T I V E hyphen resume.com. Um, so take a look at the website and what it’s all about. Um, it’s a startup, so as Drew knows, when you’re bootstrapped <laugh>, friends and family come in and help wherever you can. And yeah. And, uh, you gotta start somewhere. And, uh, he’s given us a good shot and, um, and he’s been well received. He’s met with a number of people across the space and, and, uh, they’re anxious to see what he can develop. So, um, so check out Nolan’s website and then, uh, for, for, uh, myself and my business, um, my, uh, I’m on LinkedIn, uh, John Mackey, and then my website is Mackey group llc.com. And, uh, we’re dropping monthly blogs. I’m working on my blog for, uh, for June right now. Um, you know, once the link for this podcast is up, I’ll push that out through the website and LinkedIn as well, just like Drew will do the same. Yep. Um, but, and, you know, judge talks about my company and what we do, and, you know, um, at the end of the day, just doing what I can to help with the growth and sustainability of the fire protection space.

Drew Slocum:

Yeah, no, I appreciate it. It’s a, it’s always fun to have John on the show and talk industry stuff. So,

John Mackey:

So thanks

Drew Slocum:

Man. Thanks. Yeah.

Drew Slocum:

This has been episode 43 of the Fire Protection Podcast, powered by its spec point. Thanks for listening to this two-parter on NFPA, the Fire Protection Industry, with John Mackey. Uh, again, appreciate all the relationships out there, and, uh, if you have any recommendations for, uh, episodes coming up, please feel free to reach out. Um, awesome. And, uh, social media, email sales, and inspect point.com, and I hope to see you here again soon. Thanks.