The Fire Protection Podcast : Episode #51 – Exploring Innovations in Fire Alarm Testing With Detector Testers and SDi

Drew Slocum: :

This is episode 51 of the Fire Protection Podcast powered by Inspect Point. Today my guests are Rick Heffernan from Sdi and Oliver Doerle from Detector Testers over in the UK. SDi and Detector Testers are partnered as one company; they're the manufacturers of the product to do fire alarms, a smoke and heat detection. I'm looking up in the air right now because I'm pretending I have a pole, a solo pole, or a testier. They've got a new product coming out called the Testifire XTR2, so we get into that but also get into the whole industry of fire alarm testing in general. So it was cool to have them both on because, obviously, Rick's on NFPA 72 and a wide variety of communities in North America and NFPA and Oliver's more on the UK and the European side of things. So there's some nice banter back and forth between the two at the company, but also just talking about fire alarm and detection and testing that in general. So it's cool to have them on, and looking forward to a further partnership with them moving forward. So on the podcast again, please like, and subscribe. Check us out @fireprotectionpodcast.com.

All right, we're here with Rick and Oliver from, and I guess Rick's on the SDi side and Oliver's on the Detector Testers side. Rick Heffernan from SDi and Oliver. I already messed it up. Oliver.

Oliver Doerle::

Oliver “Durla”, so it's a very difficult one. It's a German name, so I've got so many different people pronouncing it in different ways, so it's absolutely fine.

Rick Heffernan::

That is a horrible accent. Oliver, Oliver Dola. I'll have to translate since we don't have subtitles on this.

Oliver Doerle::

All these years in the UK, and I still have that accent. I'm really sorry to Rick.

Drew Slocum::

Rick, I could put the subtitles on after, like you requested.

Rick Heffernan::

Oh, very Good.

Drew Slocum::

Oliver, where are you located? You're over in the UK, right?

Oliver Doerle::

Yeah, I'm based near London. So where we've detected test is based, so yeah, really great place. Very close to London. Easy, a big city, of course, a global city, so it's a fantastic place.

Drew Slocum::

Yeah, I plan on going over there probably in the next six months. My sister-in-law just got accepted for a master's degree at King's College. Is it King's College? Wow.

Oliver Doerle::

Yeah, King's College. I mean, that's a really good one as well. And London's always fantastic. I mean, my parents here at the moment staying with me this week, and we went to see London do a little bit of sightseeing, a little bit of Buckingham Palace. Had afternoon tea at the Savoy. It's fantastic. It's just so much to do and so much to see.

Drew Slocum::

That's great. Really good. That's cool. You're really

Rick Heffernan::

Quite Oliver. Pardon? You're quite

Oliver Doerle::

Thank you very much. I take that as a compliment for you,

Drew Slocum::

Rick. You're a little the opposite, right? You're on the, where are you? You're in Jersey, right?

Rick Heffernan::

Well, normally, I try to hide that, but yes, I'm with SDi, and we're based out of Scenic, Neptune, New Jersey, on the East Coast. Generally. I don't tell anyone that Drew. So thanks for the outing.

Drew Slocum: :

It's a beautiful area, especially this time. September is the best month to be, I feel like, in the northeast shore area, right? Absolutely

Rick Heffernan::

Yeah, the coast is really nice. It is quiet.

Drew Slocum: :

Pretty. All the craziness and the tourists are gone, and you can kind of have the beach to yourself.

Rick Heffernan::

Absolutely. Yep. Absolutely.

Drew Slocum: :

So feel free to take these questions, and I may direct a couple of them to you guys individually, but just for the listenership out there, I want to discuss some of the new stuff you guys have coming out. But I guess give me the history of Detector, Testers, how SDi has been mixed into that and brought into that, and what that looks like in the current world.

Rick Heffernan::

Sure. I guess, well, Oliver, I'll save you the trouble of cracking and making a joke about my age; since I'm older and have been here longer, I guess I'll handle it, and then you could pick up or correct me, but the Detector Testers, as it's called now, originally started off, it's funny, completely out of this industry. The original name for the company and it was founded back in the late sixties by, I dunno, the guy's name was Olaf or Klaus, I can't remember what it was. It was Olaf

Oliver Doerle::

Carlos, my dad. So Olaf.

Rick Heffernan::

The name of the company was Cable Strippers, and the products were cabling tools, wire tools, et cetera. Not even in this industry in the slightest bit. The company was very small. It was a one-man band, and it gradually grew. Then they really wanted to expand their range a bit, so they got into light bulbs and changing equipment; really sexy and exciting there. And then, in the late 1980s, that's where everything really changed. And we came into this industry, and I'll give a shameless plug to my former partner, Bill Rossiter. The Rossiter family bought cable strippers, and the name was changed to No Climb Products. And then that's where it all basically started getting into the fire protection industry. We started out with manufacturing, capturing smoke dispensers that basically just held the can up there with no closed mechanism, no closed dispenser, heat detector testers, and detector removal tools, and slowly expanding our portfolio.

One of the things we actually came up with right before SDi got involved in the picture was our true test sensitivity tester, which is still going on today. That was around 1996, vintage 1997. That's when I, well, not me, my family came into the picture. SDi was born Detector Testers, No Climb had been selling in the UK and Europe, but they hadn't really had any traction in the Americas. So they were looking for an American representative and Ddetector, Testers, SDi stepped up to the plate with that, and that's how we got involved. Things still progressed, and we actually started moving into this next generation of smoke-generation technology. We started getting away from the cam smoke and went into electronic smoke dispensers, and we released in the, I guess in the mid-2000s, testifiers. We also released after that the next generation of that, which was Solar 365. And we also came out with a product. Lately, we hear about all these self-testing detectors that are going on in the industry, and are we there yet? When's it going to happen? Well, actually, we came out with a product that predates all that scorpion, which we just started selling in the US market. Basically, you can test any detector in place, and it works with everybody. It's agnostic.

 

Oliver Doerle::

Oh wow.

Rick Heffernan::

So yeah, that's something we've just started selling in the Americas more recently, I believe. Oliver Yuva, and incidentally, I have to correct myself, No Climb then became Detector Testers right around 2007,

Oliver Doerle::

I think it is,

Rick Heffernan::

2007. And so let's see, then it was Detector Testers and SDi, we were still two separate companies, merrily paddling our canoes. And then, in September of 2021, there was a change, and we were acquired by Inflection out of London. They're a private equity firm, and they actually brought the both of us together formally. So now we're part of the group SDi and Detector Testers. So we're the same company, but we operate independently. SDi less handles this hemisphere, and Oliver and Crew handle the rest of the world unless we poach some sales in places we want to go to Australia or someplace.

Oliver Doerle::

Nice. I saw you. I didn't hear that, Rick.

Rick Heffernan::

We were acquired in 2021 by inflection out of London. And actually, it's been a really positive change for us. It's actually allowed us to accelerate our growth and innovation and unlock some more potential here. And that brings us to the present day, where we have this new product that's coming out, the Testifire XTR2. I got the name right by the old prop development, but this is, it's really, I'm saying it's a great product. What would you expect me to say? Because it's ours, but it truly is. And now, in addition to being a smoke generation, it's also part of the internet of things. It's a truly connected product. So it's recording all the tests as you're doing it, but I won't be into it. I'm just here telling you the history, the boring history.

Drew Slocum: :

No, no, that's great. You may know this more. So you guys have obviously big, obviously the biggest on the detection testing kind of piece of the market, which is a niche inside a niche. Inside a niche, which is, it's still large because fire alarm systems are essentially at every building and even a lot of residential multifamily stuff like that. And the requirements per NFPA or ULC in Canada or the UK or wherever you're at globally require that probably pretty on at least an annual frequency. Yeah,

Oliver Doerle::

I mean, it's quite fascinating. I mean, Rick and I talk about it quite a bit because we cover; Rick, of course, is super big and all the codes and standards in the Americas. And, of course, we have got similar standards in other countries, including the UK and Europe. But it is fascinating because where we actually are, I mean Rick probably just mentioned sometimes at the moment, we are distributing our products in over 140 countries, it is unbelievable. Sometimes new territories or new countries pop up. Maybe that's a bad thing about my knowledge of geography because somehow I think, where's that country on the map? It's so many. It's true, isn't it? And with different markets, there are different challenges, different life cycles I guess, in fire expertise, and regimes of COASTA standards. But it's fascinating. And it's not just countries, it's big part is still marine business as well. So probably, yeah, 10% of our turnover. It's a marine business, so it's quite unusual sometimes. A few years ago, I got a phone call from someone struggling with a product, and I thought, where are you? And it turns out it was one of these really, really big yachts, like five, six stories, five Cayman Islands. Oh wow. I couldn't believe it. Unbelievable.

Rick Heffernan::

You actually said it, right? Talking about the codes and standards where things are used in different parts of the world. And we are a niche product in a niche industry. And incidentally, although the name detector testers, well, we do more than just test detectors. We also do battery testing and intelligibility testing through the bedrock product lines that we carry. So it's actually quite a bit more, our portfolio over the years has really expanded. But all of this stuff is to be code-compliant. It's required by virtually every country out there. I mean, obviously, and you had mentioned, I know you do inspect point, there's a lot of business up there as well. Canada, as you know, ULC 5 36 and a few other codes up there. The US obviously is NFPA, but NFPA is also followed in a lot of countries down in Latin America as well, and it's very strong over in the Middle East, correct? Oliver?

Oliver Doerle::

It is. It is.

Rick Heffernan::

And Oliver, you yourself, you're on, I mean, multiple working groups over there in the UK, and it's like every country Australia has as 1851. So we're involved in that. We also have representatives over in Germany, which, what are the German.

Oliver Doerle::

Dean standards, Dean standards. And then we've got, in the UK, we've got the BSS 5039 standards. So then we've got France, we've colleagues in there. But in some ways, there are slight variations that sometimes aren't known, Rick. And the gist of it is there are quite many similarities as well. And yeah, it's quite interesting, isn't it?

Drew Slocum: :

Yeah. Do most of them? I mean, I know 72 and ULC pretty well, Oliver, is it pretty standard? We're doing annual detector tests; we're essentially doing annual frequencies on the fire alarm system, the brains of the fire protection. I know certain people might on the sprinkler suppression side might not think that way, but it is the brain of the system, right? It is. And with the detection, it's the number one thing to get people out of the building and into safety and know if a fire is going on.

Oliver Doerle::

Absolutely. So basically, an annual test may be split into twice a year, but it is the same thing effectively.

Rick Heffernan::

Sprinklers and suppression, though, work hand in hand with detection. It's funny because a lot of times it's like, oh, they're the sprinkler guys, or those are the detector guys. But really, I mean suppression and detection save lives. It's funny over Oliver's way. I don't think sprinklers are nearly as prevalent as they are here.

Oliver Doerle::

No.

Drew Slocum: :

Oh, interesting.

Rick Heffernan::

Yeah, it is. I was amazed when I saw the difference. It was just, I guess it's the way the market developed.

Drew Slocum: :

Yeah, it's just maybe a lot of retrofitting sprinklers isn't the easiest either. So maybe it's how old the buildings are and everything. But obviously, having it work all together. And a lot of companies, and I know this in North America and definitely it happens in South America as well, where these companies, these service providers that are buying the products from you guys and even our product too, they're not just doing fire alarm or just doing sprinkler anymore. They're doing everything. So if you are a technician, inspector, engineer, whatever you want to call yourself, you have to know not just your one trade that you've known for the last 10, 20 years. You got to know different parts of it now because all these service providers are expanding into different aspects.

Rick Heffernan::

Absolutely. Absolutely. And everybody, it's like more and more people want to expand what they're able to do. So yeah, you're right. You have to be well-rounded.

Drew Slocum: :

Yeah. Question, probably the biggest line is your detection testing equipment on the smoke and heat side with the different kinds of lines. Has the industries, and I guess this probably differs on different markets, has it transitioned to the newer technologies where I know XTR2 just came out, but has it transitioned faster than you expected to the test of our versions, or is it sticking with the cans of smoke traditionally? How has that happened over time and the adoption, I guess?

Rick Heffernan::

Well, I mean, it's funny. Everybody was so used to just a can of smoke. I mean, let's face it, it's very simple. I mean, there's not much that can go wrong with it. You press the button, and the smoke comes out, but there are drawbacks to that. Number one is residue, which over time, leaves a film on there. Then you can get particulates that are going to reduce, make the detector under sensitive or oversensitive, plus also some of the aerosol smokes that were out there actually caused over time. There were plastic compatibility issues, and there was cracking of the detectors. But it's funny, from when we first started offering the electronic smoke generation, it was a slow uptake, but now we see it gaining momentum and one major driver of that, and I'm going to give a plug for Oliver since he just got on, do sustainability ESG, save the Dolphins working group for your alarm.

Thank you very much. I'm not totally slagging you off consciously. I mean, we have to all be good. Global citizens and regulations are thundering down upon us. We are continually, I mean, I was down at EPA in Washington meeting with them again in June. I mean, regulations are always tightening up. They're strengthening. So we're going to have to get away from canned smoke eventually. And it's going to come sooner than people realize because, environmentally, it's just not good. The manufacturing options are getting fewer and fewer supplies there are drying up, and the cost is going crazy. So this is just, it's a much better product. Also, detectors are getting smarter. So they have pre-alarm verification and algorithms. So you have to have a smart product to be able to test them. And that's really, so we have seen it gaining much momentum now, which is nice to see.

Oliver Doerle::

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I guess I said just saying what Rick has said as well in other markets, ten years ago when it was launched well before my time because I've been here seven years now, but do you know it's quite a niche product now? It's not a niche product anymore. Do testify and electronic smoke has been a sort of mainstream category over the last few years. It was the fastest-growing category for us. And you expect some countries to be really popular. Just imagine saying that because of Germany. Germany reputational our technology and a lot of fire technology,

Rick Heffernan::

German. Germany has a reputation. If you want to talk about that, Germans have a sense of humor and failure.

Oliver Doerle::

They Do maybe have,

Drew Slocum: :

He's been in the UK now.

Oliver Doerle::

Oh no, I got a mix. I'm still very German,

Rick Heffernan::

I apologize. I didn't realize that was my outside voice, I apologize.

Oliver Doerle::

But you would expect markets like Germany to be really behind for a long time, and they are. But then suddenly other markets and other regions like the Middle East suddenly popped up, and it is a product where you think, oh, should it be popular there? But suddenly, it's raised because the expectation is different. So it is really becoming more, and like I said, like Rick said, I mean the environmental aspect is quite big. And just to illustrate a little bit the latest technology, electronic smoke, only uses 1% of the smoke stimulus that liquid and traditional aerosol uses just 1%, which is a massive difference, isn't it? And there's no danger whatsoever to detect is far better for the environment. There's so much legislation coming in Europe. I speak a lot about European regulations and environmental regulations and also on your side. And there's so much happening at the moment.

Rick Heffernan::

We're always, I mean Oliver, and I guess we're sort of sad lives; we talk about this all the time, and it gets kind of boring.

Oliver Doerle::

Sorry, can I just stop you? So you said I'm sad, we live sad lives, and I've got no sense of humor as well. Drew, help me.

Drew Slocum: :

Here. This is great. I just have to sit back and let you guys banter. This is fun.

Rick Heffernan::

This is good. Oliver and I are going to take this on the road. We had a break in some new material.

In addition to the environmental drivers and the performance, but also things you normally don't even think of, transportation in storage. Think about these technicians. If we have a company that needs, they're out of smoke, alright, you got to ship me this overnight. As soon as you put that in the air, it's considered a hazmat and woo-expensive ship. Plus, once they get it, if you're in, let's say, in Arizona or, well, hell, I mean with global warming, even where Oliver is now, it's like, how many 90 degrees there? The technicians leave a case of smoke in the van. Oh

Drew Slocum: :

Yeah,

Rick Heffernan::

What will an aerosol do when that van temperature gets up to, I don't know, 120, 140 degrees Fahrenheit? I don't know what that is in Celsius, Oliver, I apologize. But there are so many issues, though. It's just electronic smoke generation is the way to go.

Drew Slocum: :

Yeah, it seems like it will eventually be faced within, I would think, the next 10 to 10 to 15 years. It just makes sense that technology's moving that way. Regulations are that way. The cost is going to just, if the cost of shipping and just maintenance and just the product, it's just going to phase out. Right. It makes sense.

Rick Heffernan::

Yeah.

Drew Slocum: :

So kind of pivoting back on the other side of the product is Rick, you're heavily involved in many of the codes and standards, and obviously with, I didn't know you were involved with some of the EPA and some of that regulation too. I will talk specifically about 72 here, and I know what's going on with ULC, but what is a new wave? You hear about remote testing a lot and the Internet of things, but in general, over the last ten years, what is 72 trying to do? Maybe the top three or four kinds of bullets; what are they trying to do with the new codes within 72?

Rick Heffernan::

Alright, just so everyone knows where we are in the process right now. So NFPA 72 is revised every three years, and we're in a cycle right now. We just had the second draft meetings this past July, either virtually depending on your committee, or in person in lovely Kansas City. I believe the report for the second draft will be out in May 24. And then the Niman closing date is the end of March 24. And then we're going to be voting on it.

So then once it's given its blessing passes, muster passes the vote, and it's given its blessing by the standards council, then you'll have that be published, the latest edition in late summer, early fall of 2024. And that'll be the NFPA 2025 edition. And that's actually going to be the 13th edition of NFPA 72. The first one was delivered in, I think it was 1993. But the top things like late, like the past edition, that's just the changes happening now. For instance, mass notification, especially when you hear these school shootings, et cetera, all mass notification systems now must be UL 25 72 listed cybersecurity. That's on everybody's minds because a lot of fire alarms now are anytime you have access, and this is where the remote access comes in; anytime you have access to the outside, that's a potential pathway for a hacker or somebody to get in and remote access. And I mean, you see it in the detection and sprinkler and suppression sides; you can do so much from offsite. Oliver didn't recently. I think your alarm just let this past summer; they put out some guidance, a guidance paper for remote access, didn't they?

Oliver Doerle::

Remote services they did. So yeah, because on our site last year was quite a big year because Ian, 50 71 0, which deals with remote services, became effective, I think, in May last year. And that is a really very topical area now as well. And so Year of LA has put out quite a bit of content, including webinars, a few weeks ago, which I think you were on it as well, won't you? But yeah, I think as it comes back to what you say, drew mentioned what you mentioned earlier is that a lot of these sorts of themes as there might be variations of the themes, but they are similar on your side of the pond all and on our side as well and in Europe. So it's quite an exciting time. So I bet a lot of it is happening right now.

Drew Slocum: :

No, no, that's great. Yeah, 72 seems to be ahead of many of the other codes that I am about to sit on 25 for sprinkler, and then I'm involved in many others. But it just seems that ahead and a lot of it's connected to software, which usually is ahead of the times anyway because that's what it's kind of being pushed that way. I think remote and IoT were among the first standards it was introduced to, and it's easier to do that technology. It is connected, it's all wired, it's low voltage. So yeah, I'd be interested to see, I would like to dive into that cyber side a little bit more because we're heavily involved on the software side, but if you're able to remote access in, that's just going to get more complicated as we progress, right? Oh absolutely. It'll be a different type of hacking and all that, but everything will be connected at that point. So that's how Target got hacked a few years ago through the HVAC system.

Rick Heffernan::

And I mean COVID really accelerated the need to have remote access. I mean, well, Drew, you and I sit on NFPA 915 remote inspections. I mean, being off-site is becoming more commonplace, and other issues are created by that. Another thing NFPA 72 is dealing with now during COVID-19. People were not going into the workplace. We were doing social distancing masking. Well, guess what? The supervising station that's a big controversy now. How can you be a supervising station working out of your apartment and the dog's barking in the background? So we're trying and straighten some things out with that. Or if you have Drew, you have twins; the twins are stapling their heads to the floor or on fire. So there are a lot of changes, even things that have been there for ages, like ionization ion detectors that are being pulled out of the code as they're going. See you later, everything is going. Then there are other continually new working groups coming up; as I mentioned before, your alarm, what were you on a sustainability group for?

Oliver Doerle::

So they just created those recently. So for environment sustainability, because of course, it does cover a lot of areas, as I said earlier, does know at the moment you've got a lot of topics of and European consultation on PASFs

Oliver Doerle::

Yeah, forever. Some people refer to them as forever chemicals, and where they are, and if those restrictions go through, it's a huge impact on many people. But that group covers everything from right to repair, eco-design for sustainable products, green claims, directive recycling regulations, et cetera, and FCAs as well. So it's a lot, and certainly, I think there's a need to bring it all together both to share among the members because you almost have to be an expert in everything, and it's quite challenging. And then also to what you can do to make sure you influence or voice your concerns heard. So massive trends,

Rick Heffernan::

But.

Drew Slocum: :

No, yeah,

Rick Heffernan::

Go ahead. There's one thing that's not changing: the need to test detectors. I mean, in 72, you visually have to inspect them, the visual inspection once a year, and then functionally testing. And again, that's where XTR two comes in and the traceability of that test. And again, I won't get into that, Oliver; I'll leave that more for you. That's the baby that you have been involved in since it's been,

Drew Slocum: :

So yeah, let's get into it now. So we came down to our CEO, Pat, and I came down to SDi back in the springtime. We talked about this new technology. It was really, really cool to see. I knew about Testifire and many of the prior solo products, from being in the industry for many years. But I really liked what you guys were debuting at NFPA. So I guess explain to the listenership on Oliver what the Testifire XTR two kind of does compare to what it did before and then what the plans are for it.

Oliver Doerle::

Okay, so we launched the DO2A test for Testifire XDO2, which is the full name of the second-generation all-in-one tester. So it does smoke and heat testing. Do you know what people already know? But what it does also is, is it captures the digital record of the test. And that's quite a big deal because over the years you're a software guy, you compliance card, so you know this, but it's a lot of our customers said it is great that we do functional tests and we have to do them, and it's the right thing to do, but if you can't demonstrate that you've done it, it's like you haven't done it and there's always been. So I think generally over the years, and I think probably the last five years, really accelerated more awareness about compliance, better order trails, making sure that you have got it covered and are doing the right thing.

And that's where it comes from. So it is not just testing suddenly a record that is digital records, which is then sort of turned into a report. So automated PDF report, and then, of course, you have these reports or even the raw data you can share with other people, including your customers or building owners, et cetera. And from our side, really, the big technology difference is that it's automated. It's not just what you have. You have an automated start, and then you've got quite a lot of technology in the cup that suddenly knows when a detector goes into activation and then decides if it's a pass or fail. So what I have, hopefully, you can see liver, I actually have got this little baby here. So this is what it looks like. And so a smoke heat tester, which is what Rick said as well, has many ways towards multi-criteria detectors, and there's a trend towards some and also benefits from all in.

One is just you have one of these things rather than a smoke tester on a separate heat tester; what it does is just imagine you have a detector. So I've just recently got in a smoke setting on a detector. If it goes over, it would start a test, and when it goes into activation, a red light would come on, and the tester here would pick it up. So just to demonstrate a little bit. Hopefully, you can see it detector starts testing smoke; you can see the light here happening, and then when the detector goes into activation, the unit would pick up the light and I'm just doing that now and then you see green suddenly appearing and actually goes a little bit further automatically now starts clearing as well and put a lot of smoke through fresh air throw as well. And that makes sure ensures that there's no reactivation of the detector. So just making testing very, very easy. And certainly what you have is you've got an automated start, you have got a decision made by the test if a pass or fail and the data time stamping that you geo-mapping that with it on the day when you're testing, and suddenly it's a lot more data. Something you can't really falsify that easily, and you have got certain proof that it's done. It's quite cleverest to how it's done as well. I think.

Drew Slocum: :

Yeah, I tossed just a quick website, obviously the detector's there, but I really like that it's communicating back to a software platform, and that's where I think the optimization, and. Sorry to steal your words, but I think that's where the optimization happens because gathering that and you're not having to write it down anymore; it's just being logged, right?

Oliver Doerle::

Do you know what it actually is automatically logged? It's really hassle-free. And then when something doesn't work, it's not some technician saying it doesn't work; it's actually the test equipment telling you it doesn't work. To be honest, that's really what is important for our customers as well because actually, it's all about deficiencies and making sure that you identify them, and then you can fix them to make sure that you're compliant. And this tool does it. It's quite clever how it does it. I think the one point I would probably say, and I think Rick is probably saying yeah, it's really the heart of everything we do, is that our equipment works with every single detector. It really, irrespective of what brand, what model, and what region it has to work with everyone and be truly universal because you never know as a technician when you're turning up on a site what detector you test on the day. And it does. So when we develop a product like this, I mean we test on so many detectors. I think just for this product I think we 500 different detectors we have to be on. I think Rick personally probably cursed me throughout the time period because a lot of the detectives for the year and North American and market, he had to, and he is cursing saying, Oliver, why do you have to get me to get more detectors over? But it is what it is, isn't it? So it's really, really important.

Drew Slocum: :

No, that's great. It is just that about the fire alarm market, you talk to the distributors of the service providers doing fire alarm work out there, and they might be an authorized distributor for Notifier Edwards, Siemens, Potter, whoever, but when they're doing inspections, they're doing on everything. And if you can't have something that works on everything and is similar to our product, you have to be able to work on everything. And I know over the years, the big manufacturers have tried to make things proprietary, which I think should be more of an open market. You should be able to work on whatever you need to work on. That's my opinion, and I think that's best for fire safety anyway. Don't lock it down. But you have to have equipment out there and platforms to be able to work on different things.

Oliver Doerle::

Rick, you probably have a certain view, but I agree it should work for everyone. It should be. The reality on the ground, I think, is there are so many different types of detectors. Not everything is just one make-one brand. And then also there's so many legacy detectors. I mean, even throwing during some of the beta trials you have, I've come across detectors where I had to go back to manufacturers and our own library of detectors to identify detectors that were 40 years old, but we're still on site, and we're still working. And that's a little bit of the reality as well. And I guess it's the same in a lot of countries. And why would you make, I think if you make it open to everyone, I think is more collaborative because I mean, we haven't really discussed this yet, but I mean you're a software company around it, you look at it what we've just generating what is excites you, digital records, they're beneficial to lots of people. You probably think, hey, that would be good for us as well, maybe. And there are certainly many more opportunities for sharing and adding value with that sort of data feed, your type of products, and others. So yeah.

Drew Slocum: :

Yeah, there's definitely something there, too, because we do a lot of the NFP 72 and ULC, that's perfect data for what we give to the service provider, a nice report, and then obviously they're going to do the fixes and deficiency repairs accordingly. So I think there's a perfect synergy. You guys have created almost perfect timing with what we're talking about.

Oliver Doerle::

I mean, it would be nice to see what you think because, of course, sometimes when Rick and I have this discussion, we see, we hear it's the all-singing dancing system where everything is one system, one manufacturer, but there's still a lot of conventional systems out there. In my markets, it is a lot of over 50%. And at least now we've got a solution that can sort of give you a record of something that has been done on even a really old legacy system that can't be bad. I think that can only be a good thing. And even if you've got something really advanced, we have a record of functional testing. It tells you what has failed. And even in the addressable system, it tells you when something has passed, but it doesn't really say, Has my know detector failed, and our staff does it?

Drew Slocum: :

That's great.

Rick Heffernan::

It is a huge liability issue for not keeping this documentation properly and not having an audit trail or traceability. And this protects not only the occupants, the building owners that are having these tests done for them, but it protects the fire alarm companies, the technicians that are actually doing the testing if something down the road happens, well there's a record that you were there, you did it, this is the result, it happened on this date and time. And that's a good thing.

Drew Slocum: :

Yeah, I think it evolves, and it optimizes the testing process. As you said, previously and before us, there's a competitor of ours out there that you had to go up and prove that you were there by scanning a detector. But how do you do that all the way in the air, and it takes an extra step? But if you guys are already up there doing the test, you grab that; hey, I was there at this time; I've got this result, right? Boom, no need for scanning anymore, right?

Oliver Doerle::

God, you are very good at selling this. Maybe you should recruit them. What do you

think Rick?

Rick Heffernan::

Absolutely. And that goes even further. I mean the one thing which is part of our company culture is continuous improvement in development mean. So this is coming to the market now, but we want to be a partner with inspect point to get our data into your system and just make it easier, eventually making it seamless, not a pain point. It should be just nice and easy. And that's where hopefully, we'll get to that point.

Drew Slocum: :

Yeah, because most of the fire alarm devices will be the detection testing or the detection and initiating equipment, but horns, strobes, and other pole stations, they're still going to have to do that. So we're grabbing the bulk of it with this product and software platform with your guys, but it won't grab everything. So I think collaborating there just makes it a lot more seamless.

Oliver Doerle::

It's quite exciting, isn't it? Because I think you sorted it at NFPA, didn't you? Also, when you went to see Sti, I was unfortunately not in Vegas because of being German; I was at the same time in Germany launching it as well. It was quite an interesting experience because, for the first time, people saw what we were doing. Suddenly, it's not just traditional aerosol testing; it's actually doing more than testing and digital records reporting. And suddenly, you can see people thinking, what if he did this? What if he linked it with this? What if he used both data sets? And suddenly, I think all of those put together, you're just adding value and making fire safety and fire safety better. And it's just the start. In a software world, you are a little bit more now software. If you talked to us in 12 months, we would be talking about completely different things again because the product would've evolved. And there are so many things, the problem we want to do so really

Drew Slocum: :

Well, you can evolve the product. As you guys know, the product takes a while, right? And testing equipment's not as tough as some of the obvious fire alarm equipment where it's got to be tested, listed and approved and all that. On the software side, you can iterate so quickly. You can literally throw out 20 to 30 new products a month. They're some small, but there are some big ones. But you can really iterate on software and that digital side quickly, and I'm sure you guys have learned that over the last year or two, developing this

Oliver Doerle::

On behalf of Rick has been, and his team have been really big in helping with beta testing and getting customer feedback. And, of course, the digital record is a great thing for compliance, but we've already had so much customer feedback. Could you do this just because the product is also controlled via an app? And certainly, changes are easy to make. So if you want to change smoke profiles or optimize for certain manufacturers or brands in the future, all of this is possible. And beforehand, we had never had that possibility. Now you will have a mobile phone which you used to you can use to control it, but if you need to update firmware, you can do it over air updates as well. I think possibilities are endless to keep updating it and keeping a product really adapting to the needs. And you really have to because all these detectors out there are getting smarter, more technology, and I guess that's a reason why our stuff needs to be smarter and faster as well. So I think it is a natural transition for those types of products because the whole market is going to that side with more advanced technology.

Drew Slocum: :

Yeah, no, that's great. Rick, have you got anything else on this? So I have a couple of questions that you guys don't know are coming, so I don't know if you've heard the podcast before, but I'll get into 'em in a second.

Rick Heffernan::

Yeah, I think we covered everything, Oliver. I believe we have.

Oliver Doerle::

I think so. I think so. Do know, you could always go on our website, a SCIS website, to read more about it. So it's nice and easy

Drew Slocum: :

And as we obviously partner up on some stuff more, we'll obviously get some of that out to the market and all that. I'm excited to work with you guys on this product.

Rick Heffernan::

Likewise.

Drew Slocum: :

All right, so this is called, I call it the quick response round. So I have a couple just quick hit questions. You can explain it briefly, but I'll start with you, Rick. Obviously, You're involved with many different codes out there. What is your favorite for NFPA, specifically?

Rick Heffernan::

Favorite for, let's see. Obviously, the first one I got onto, well, no longer exists. That was carbon monoxide seven 20.

Drew Slocum: :

Oh right,

Rick Heffernan::

72. Sucked that up. But I mean probably just test and maintenance because I've been so heavily involved in that. But actually, there are some new codes that I managed to get myself onto NFPA 461 spaceports fire protection.

Drew Slocum: :

Yeah, I see that. That's really cool. Some interesting stuff there.

Rick Heffernan::

And also NFPA 420 protection in the cannabis grow houses and processing centers. It's really neat when you do a code that's developed from the ground up rather than always being there. It is really sort of fun to put one together. I managed to also get onto, as you did 915 and seven 15 fuel gas, and we can help build that up from the ground. So it's sort of neat watching that come to fruition.

Drew Slocum: :

A lot of work. Yeah, I know. I think I'm supposed to roll on to four 20 once things get, I don't know. I know it's been slow to roll out the standard, but I think there will be more technical committees. I think I'm set to roll onto that, but I would love to pick your brain sometime because that's a cool topic nobody knows about. Right. You obviously need fire protection. Sure,

Oliver Doerle::

Absolutely. I'm always jealous when I hear Rick saying over these fantastic working groups, and they're spaceports. I mean, how cool is that? I'm pleased you didn't ask me the same question because I couldn't really top that.

Drew Slocum: :

They don't have a cannabis standard over in the UK.

Oliver Doerle::

No, maybe in Holland, but the UK may reckon you have to ask Sander; maybe bring him to the podcast.

Rick Heffernan::

Yeah, we can ask Sander over a bedrock Netherlands. We've got that going on.

Oliver Doerle::

Do you know what Drew? That would be a funny one. Do you know a straight-talking Dutchman? No. Bullshit. That would be quite funny.

Drew Slocum: :

That would be a V1 Oliver Football Club. Are you a far fan Farham town fan? What's your football club?

Oliver Doerle::

So I've got two. So when I was living in Germany I was buying Munich, so that's it. And I was a member of Munich Football Club as well. Oh wow. So I'm quite proud. And then when I came to England, being Germanist, not the most popular thing and cool thing in England, but there was a very famous German player just playing for Topal Hot called Linman, and I think he was a national coach in the US and certainly if you were mate German school. So I thought I was up to support the Spurs. So yeah.

Drew Slocum: :

That's great. That's great. All right. Rick, do you call it a pork roll or Taylor Ham?

Rick Heffernan::

Pork role.

Drew Slocum: :

All right.

Rick Heffernan::

Poor problem. Wow, that was a real jersey-centric question, but yeah, no poor problem.

Oliver Doerle::

Yeah, I don't even know what you're talking about.

Drew Slocum: :

Yeah, exactly. Unless you're from the northeast or Jersey. It's a delicacy in New Jersey.

Rick Heffernan::

Well,

Oliver Doerle::

Delicacy in New Jersey.

Rick Heffernan::

No comments.

Drew Slocum: :

Thanks again, guys, for being on the Fire Protection Podcast. Again, there's a lot to come of this, and I'm really excited to see this product take off in the market. Where can we find, I guess SDi and Detector Testers? Where can people find out about the product?

Rick Heffernan::

I go to either one of our websites, SDifire.com or DetectorTesters.com. We've been advertising all over there, and obviously, we're on social media, LinkedIn, Facebook, and Twitter, so you can definitely find it anywhere if you look. However, it surprises me because it seems like at least once every year, somebody shows up at our stand at NFPA and says, I've been looking for a product like this my whole life, and they're holding up a solo 330 smoke dispenser that was first marketed in 2001. And I'm like, what? Have you been under a rock?

Drew Slocum: :

Do you not own a phone, or do you have email?

Rick Heffernan::

Yes.

Drew Slocum: :

Yeah. That's great. Well cool. Thanks guys. Thanks, Rick. Thanks, Oliver, for coming on, and thank you very much. Yeah, we will get this out here soon and look forward to furthering the partnership.

Rick Heffernan::

Sounds good.

Drew Slocum: :

Thank you very much. Thanks guys. This was episode 51 of the Fire Protection Podcast powered by Inspect Point. I want to thank again Rick and Oliver for stopping on the podcast today from SDi Detector Testers, some really cool technology that they've come about with their products, and looking forward to seeing it here down the road in the future. And there's some really cool stuff that this will be able to do and optimize the fire alarm testing process. So more to come with a podcast. I'll let you know again; a lot of content coming out in the next couple of months. So stay tuned, and we'll see you again soon.